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Talk:Aldebaron Colony
Aldebaran colony I strongly suggest moving this to Aldebaran colony. Aldebaran is a real star, and 'Aldebaron' is most certainly a typo. Via , this should be at the 'proper' name, and the background note on Aldebaron can stay. -- Harry 17:20, 31 Dec 2004 (CET) :I agree. Even in the future they can misspell things :) -- EtaPiscium 21:06, 31 Dec 2004 (CET) Aldebaron I strongly recommend that this be moved back to "Aldebaron", which is not only how the name is spelt on-screen but also in the script. However, I'll research this issue some more before making the change. If you wish to object to my suggestion, feel free to do so in the interim. --Defiant 02:13, July 19, 2011 (UTC) :I suggest that the relevant info, if any, be presented here before any move or split. That said, I would very much like to know what "all the other references" are. - 02:38, July 19, 2011 (UTC) Not a problem, Archduk3; good thinking, in fact! :) I've so far found a single reference to the "Aldebaron Colony" in the script; it's said when Dehner is first introduced to Kirk. I'll keep you apprised. --Defiant 02:54, July 19, 2011 (UTC) ::If the spelling appeared on screen as the article says, then that spelling is paramount, regardless of the script.--31dot 11:06, July 19, 2011 (UTC) I agree and understand, though in this case, both the script and on-screen evidence say "Aldebaron Colony" with one reference to it in each source. As far as I can see, the only basis for calling it "Aldebaran colony" is the real-world spelling of "Aldebaran" as well as (possibly) the spelling of the word in other Star Trek contexts (other episodes, etc.) --Defiant 18:07, July 20, 2011 (UTC) Just to clarify, it's entirely speculative that the name of this colony is in reference to the real star Aldebaran, with nothing on-screen or in the script to establish that connection, besides the similarity of the two names. --Defiant 18:14, July 20, 2011 (UTC) I'm still not quite sure what the consensus on this issue is; should the page's namespace be "Aldebaran colony" or "Aldebaron Colony"? Some further comments would be much appreciated. --Defiant 12:31, July 22, 2011 (UTC) ::It seems that it should be moved, but I would strongly recommend three things: ::a) leaving a redirect from the current spelling, ::b) adding a note on spelling based on script and on-screen, ::c) note similarity to the actual star named "Aldebaran". ::Once the last two things are in the article, then we can move it (and fix the links) to "Aldebaron colony". -- sulfur 12:43, July 22, 2011 (UTC) There's clearly been a mistake/misunderstanding; if the page is to be moved to suit on-screen and script evidence, it should be to "Aldebaron Colony" rather than "Aldebaron colony" – both sources state the former. --Defiant 13:04, July 22, 2011 (UTC) ::No mistake. Our naming policy is to name them with a small "c". Despite onscreen/script names. -- sulfur 13:18, July 22, 2011 (UTC) Yeah, I thought it might be something like that. Could you point me in the direction of the relevant policy page? --Defiant 13:22, July 22, 2011 (UTC) :::We don't have written policies for everything. It's more a policy by practice. Although, it appears that we have a couple of colonies with a capital "C" in the name. Hrm. -- sulfur 14:13, July 22, 2011 (UTC) Furthermore, I'd say that not naming it "Aldebaron Colony" even though both the on-screen evidence as well as the script stylize it that way is not in compliance with the common sense policy; why use those sources just to ignore them again? There seems to be a lot more material evidence that this should be at "Aldebaron Colony" – exactly what it says on-screen – than anywhere else. --Defiant 14:51, July 22, 2011 (UTC) Rename Aldebaron Colony is the spelling of this colony on the file for Elizabeth Dehner. I would suggest then based on this canonical evidence that this page should be renamed to Aldebaron Colony.Lakenheath72 (talk) 09:20, March 12, 2015 (UTC) :This was apparently already brought up in the above discussion, although not resolved. Lowercase letters are always used for the word colony. --Noah Tall (talk) 09:26, March 12, 2015 (UTC) ::Not always, though the assumption seems to be that "colony" isn't part of the "official" name, more of a descriptor, unless there's some reason to think otherwise. We seem to have a reason to think otherwise here. - 04:18, March 13, 2015 (UTC) In the real world, there are examples where the word "colony" is capitalized. Some examples from American history: , , and .Lakenheath72 (talk) 14:02, March 20, 2015 (UTC) :::I don't have a big issue with it, as long as it's clearly on the file. Do we actually have an image of that file somewhere? The other colonies we have with capitals are "Beta VI Colony" (which should likely be "colony"), Earth Colony II (name seen onscreen), Martian Colony 3 (name not seen onscreen), and Okrand Colony (name seen onscreen). -- sulfur (talk) 14:38, March 20, 2015 (UTC) ::::Just an unhelpful musing, but there's something subtly perverse about following these on-screen capitalization, given that in the vast majority of cases the seen name is in all caps and we then impose a capitalization rule ourselves. Are there even examples of colony names that were seen on screen that both included lower case letters, and didn't capitalize the word colony? -- Capricorn (talk) 15:15, March 20, 2015 (UTC) For me, I would go by the rules of capitalization. "Massachusetts Bay Colony, but the colony at Massachusetts Bay." In this example, from a Style Manual at McMurray University, the word colony is capitalized when it's part of a proper noun; however, it is not capitalized when it is not part of a proper noun.Lakenheath72 (talk) 17:30, March 20, 2015 (UTC) ::::Has something been decided here? Because the capitalization has been changed here yesterday -- Capricorn (talk) 18:05, March 25, 2015 (UTC) No change has been made to the title for that page. I used proper capitalization in the text. Martian Colonies is a proper noun.Lakenheath72 (talk) 18:43, March 25, 2015 (UTC) :::It is? What text screen is it from? -- sulfur (talk) 18:47, March 25, 2015 (UTC) I did research into capitalization for nouns. I made a link to a page (see above) which goes into detail about the correct grammer for a historical paper. I am using this as a guide when working on the pages. I have encountered pages where people are discussing when something should be capitalized and when something shouldn't be capitalized. It's a confusing issue for many people.Lakenheath72 (talk) 19:06, March 25, 2015 (UTC) ::::Made more confusing then it could be in any case: can we at the very least agree that title and text should correspond? If the title has some reason to assume that the term is capitalized in a nonstandard way, then that reason should be cause to do it the same way in the text. -- Capricorn (talk) 06:44, March 26, 2015 (UTC) Which is more important, the rules of grammar or naming conventions?Lakenheath72 (talk) 21:02, March 26, 2015 (UTC) ::Generally, naming conventions, per Human v. human. - 21:37, March 26, 2015 (UTC) :::Note that "Beta VI Colony" was renamed to "Colony Beta VI", when the context of that phrasing suggested/indicated that the wording meant "colony named Beta VI". As such, it is currently at "Beta VI" (which is its canonical name, despite what Lakenheath72 seems to think). I seem to recall going through these same shenanigans when it was split off from "Beta VI" (which was an article about the planet, since redirected to the colony article) into "Beta VI Colony". -- sulfur (talk) 21:42, March 26, 2015 (UTC) I think an issue that hasn't been considered is that there is no universal rule on capitalization. I am looking into the Chicago Manual of Style for information on what to do in this situation. I am seeing capitalization styles for other countries - German, Dutch, Chinese, Japanese, etc. Capitalization is cultural. I am thinking that if you are raised in a different language, than your expectation of what is capitalized is different from someone who speaks a different language. From the Boston College History Department, there is this paragraph from "Tips for Writing History Papers". *''Your papers are written in English, not German. Unlike German, English does not capitalize nouns as a matter of course. Do not capitalize nineteenth century, lords, law, jurors, legal reform, slavery, working class, capitalism, socialism, etc. Words are not capitalized simply because they represent something important. The rule is: When in doubt, do not use capitals.'' http://www.bc.edu/schools/cas/history/resources/tips.html#punctuation The woman who wrote the transcripts for the episode "The Squire of Gothos" has Colony Beta Six. In one sentence, Kirk says, "Set course for Colony Beta Six." In this sentence, Colony Beta Six is a proper noun. Colony would be a common noun if Kirk had said, "Set course for the colony on Beta Six." However, this is not what he said. Of course, this is my interpretation of the rules I have learned from reading tips on how to write history papers from two universities.Lakenheath72 (talk) 22:30, March 26, 2015 (UTC) :::The transcript is NOT the episode. Repeat that to yourself. It's simply one person's interpretation of what was said. So, by basing all of your research on a transcript, you're getting things coloured through the eyes of someone else already. -- sulfur (talk) 23:51, March 26, 2015 (UTC) If I have doubts about the transcript, I can review the episode on YouTube. Kirk says, "Set a course for Colony Beta VI". (Full episodes of the series are available on YouTube.) I feel that you think I am challenging you; I am not.Lakenheath72 (talk) 00:54, March 27, 2015 (UTC)